14: Transformative Relationships: From Addiction to Triumph with Justin Wiseman

Welcome to Make More Love, the show for the entrepreneurial man who wants a hot and healthy marriage as well as a successful business. I'm your host Ellen Dorian, and this is your place for straight up judgment-free conversations about merging the demands of business with the needs of a fulfilling relationship. We're all about supporting you to be extraordinary in your personal and your professional life, living fully in every way that counts. If you're new to the show, please don't forget to like follow, subscribe, whatever your favorite podcast platform calls it. So you don't miss anything. And it would be great if you could share with a friend too. Before we jump in just a reminder that the Make More Love show is for information and entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for the guidance of a qualified mental health or medical professional. Today I'm really excited that we have our first podcast guest. The whole idea is to have conversations with men who run businesses who are in the thick of it, trying to meet the demands of being in relationships and having a business. And I'm very excited to have Justin Wiseman here today. And Justin, I'm going to start by asking you to introduce yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about you and what you do, who you serve how you help them stuff like that?

Thank you. Beautiful intro, by the way, I already relate to pretty much everything that you just said. So my name's Justin, I'm from Australia. So I know Ellen, you're in the States, correct? And me personally, so I see myself as a business owner, a coach, a father, and a lover. So that's really what my life revolves around. The relationship area of my life has probably been one of most transformative in the sense of where I've got the most of my growth from.

I want to talk with you about both business and relationships, and I'm sure we'll jump back and forth, but first, can I ask you if you're cool with sharing on a personal level about your relationship?

Wherever the conversation leads today, I'm happy to go. I don't really have any intentions here other than to be led by you and speak from the heart, so...

I love that because I think when you try to do these things too formally, what you end up with isn't as relatable to people as when we just jump in and share our experiences.

Okay, cool. My personal story is I was pretty much a high performer or high achiever when I was younger in the area of sports. So I loved like performing and athletics and playing what we call Australian Rules here In Australia, as well as tennis. I performed at a high level in those as a youngster, and then I ended up with an injury in my neck and that sort of transformed my whole direction in life at the time. And that's when I got really interested in girls. That was around 17.... and got into a couple of relationships between 17 and 21. And, it was at the age of 21 that I had my first real big breakup, because I was dating someone who had a daughter, so I had had a little family. And then that led me down the path of... I actually ended up addicted to methamphetamines for four years.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So there was a bit of a journey there in regards to not knowing how to process emotions and coming from a family where, I wouldn't say that most emotions were devalidated or neglected, but I would definitely say that it was like, Just harden up and move on and keep doing your thing." So I went through that for a while and then came out the other side through my own personal journey. So, I tried working psychologists and different people. I really found a gap in my experience through that. And so that sort of sent me down the journey on understanding psychology and human behavior.

I truly appreciate you being so open about that part of your life. And I'm very interested to hear how you went from those circumstances to getting into business.

I'd always been interested in business from a younger age, like picking fruit trees from the neighborhood that I lived in Melbourne, Australia and then going around door to door, selling them at eight years old. So, business and making money's also been an integral part of my life. And then I've gone on from there to build businesses since I was around 30... so now 39. So the last nine years I've had a really big focus on business building and coaching and helping business owners, coaches, facilitators to grow their businesses, but also our own personal businesses that we have in the hospitality space as well. So me and my wife and family run businesses as well. Wow. That's fabulous. So your coaching focuses on consultants, coaches, and facilitators. Is that right? Yeah. So I have two coaching businesses. I have one called Maximum Growth, which is with my business partner, Tanya Cross. And so that one there, we focus on coaches and facilitators. It's all mindset... So, my thing is like mindset and human performance, and helping them to work through their stuff to grow their business. And then I do one to one with six-to-seven figure business owners,helping them with their mental and emotional and strategic limitations when it comes to themselves, their relationships, and their businesses. And, outside of the coaching space we run a business called Devil's Donuts. And that's basically Hot jam donuts out of food vans.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's hot over here, too. We've got all these pop up donut shops now.

Wow. Interesting.

Yeah. And I know coffee is big in Australia. I know we think of Americans as having a coffee culture, but it's not quite as intense as the Australian Coffee Culture.

Yeah, Coffee Culture here in Australia is massive. Like every street that you go down, there'll be a coffee shop. And it's super competitive as well, in regards to, if you don't have a quality coffee, you're out. Like you're gone. You just won't make it. So there's definitely a range from like super specialty down to the person who's just going to work, just wants a coffee and something to eat, but it's the coffee culture is huge here. And, nearly every third coffee shop here ends up roasting their own beans. So it's really big here.

That sounds like a fun business. So how long have you been in that and how did you get into it?

So how I got into hospitality I was 17, and just looking for work outside of school. So I worked in an old school Italian style pizza shop where the family had built this business for the last 40+ years. And, you literally had to work your way up through the process to be allowed to actually make the pizzas or touch the dough or do any of that stuff. I learned a lot about business itself, but also how to show up in life. It was a very pivotal experience for me, and I learned some really cool principles through that. And then... interestingly enough, I mentioned earlier that, that I have my addiction, so my first step back into working again, I ended up back there. That's when I met my wife, funnily enough. So one week after I started, she started, and I remember being at the pizza oven and I looked across and there was this new girl standing at the coffee machine. And at the time obviously she was very... she still is very attractive... but the thought in my head was like, "look at that butt" basically. And then from there, I chased her for the next eight months, and then we started dating. And so my wife has also been in hospitality for a long time. And so we ended up with a coffee shop from there because we were living in Adelaide at one point. We moved from there back to where we are now, which is in Bendigo, Victoria. And because we've been spoiled for coffee, we came back here and we're like, "there's a huge gap in the market." So I think after six months we ended up opening a coffee shop and filled the gap in the market in regards to the quality of the coffee, and then also the customer service side of things, compared to what we're experiencing in Adelaide in the field. And then from there the donut business itself... we bought that business...so we didn't start that business. That business has been around for 55 years. So, the doughnuts...we've been in for two years.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. And so were you married at the time that you started the business or did you guys get married along the way?

We got married in 2016. We met in 2009. The coffee shop, we were married when we started. and Mila, our youngest daughter, would have been like nine months old.

Oh, wow. So you had a baby. You had more than one kid.

Yeah. So I've got three. And she's the youngest.

I can't even imagine how challenging that must have been.

Running multiple businesses, having a toddler, running the coffee shop which requires you to be there at 5 o'clock in the morning. And then my business where I'm dealing with clients from maybe nine o'clock to 10 o'clock on and our other daughter Evie, had just started school. But yes, juggling fatherhood, motherhood, a new business, and then obviously your relationship. Yeah, it's definitely challenging.

So when you and Sarah decided to buy the coffee business, did you do it together from the start, and you also bought the donut business together, right? But you already had the coaching business.

Yeah, correct.

So what was that decision like for you? What discussions did you have about your situation with the kids, and already having a business? What are, what were some of those conversations like?

So it's really interesting because the primary motivator was more on my wife's side. She's highly creative and has always had little creative businesses. Even now, right beside me she's got a whole set up for creating earrings and things that she sells online, and all sort of stuff. Before we had our son Xavier in 2012, she was always quite career driven. And once we had Xavier she started a little business called Little Red Wardrobe, making kids clothes, primarily hats, and selling them online. And then we moved to Bendigo, and she'd been tossing up the ideas of a few different businesses. We knew there was a gap in the market 'cause we'd obviously tried a lot of the coffee shops in Bendigo and nothing really hit the spot for us. So, I was having a chat with her and she said basically, "Look, I want to start a coffee shop." And she'd been talking about it for a while. And I just asked her one simple question literally, "What's stopping you from starting one?" And she paused for a second... and she just said, "Oh, actually nothing." And I said, okay, let's just get it done. And literally the next day, the opportunity presented itself.

Wow! And so how did that go down?

We were training at a gym the next day, and the owner was speaking to Sarah, and he said, "I want to put a coffee shop in the front of the gym, but I'm not sure I want to run it." And so, the decision was made and the location was found, and within two and a half months we had the coffee shop up and running. And that's when we started to run into some tension and contention between us.... just because it was the managing of the family with the multiple businesses. Now... silly enough, we knew there'd be some challenges and problems with managing family, and we started to run into some tension and stress after the fact, so it was a little bit unwise on our part, but at the same time, that was also part of the learning experience. We just got caught up in the excitement of what this could do for us, and, the opportunity for Sarah to express herself in this way.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so then whose business becomes more important? Is it the one that makes the more money? Is it the one that has greater fulfillment? But the reality is it's not even about either one being more important. The question is how do you actually manage that in a way that both people are fulfilled, but also you're able to look after the family and look after each other's needs? So what were some of the biggest conflicts and how did you make the decision about which business to prioritize? I think our biggest conflict was, how do we manage the kids and how do we manage the family? And who's going to be... and this is where the thinking got caught up... who's going to be the primary carer, when the reality is that it was neither of us were the primary. It was more about how do we cooperate in order to be able to run both of our businesses at the same time?

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about overcoming stereotypes and the revelations that came from that. But before we do, I'd like to share something I'm offering for my listeners. A lot of you've been reaching out with questions about your own relationships, and I want to help. So I'm offering my listeners a free Relationship Reset Call. It's a quick 15 minutes with just you and me. We'll figure out what problem to tackle first. Then we'll lay out a plan with one or two steps to get you moving in the right direction. And after that, if you'd like more help I'll let you know how to get it. If you let your relationship go to shite, the cost to your financial, social and emotional wellbeing is enormous. It will truly put a dent in your armor. So let's not let that happen. Head over to relationshipresetcall.com to grab your spot. Let's get you on a trajectory to Make More Love... in Your Life and With Your Wife. And we're back with Justin Wiseman. The conversation's really been fascinating so far and next I want to dig into the provider myth and the impact that that had on you and your relationship while you are running all these businesses and managing your family. My last episode was just on this topic about these roles of protector, provider, that are just so ingrained in so many men. And it's hard to overcome that to get to the place where you can do something new.

I'm gonna be really honest... it brought up a lot of stuff about me being the provider, me being the breadwinner, my business should be the priority, and all that type of stuff that I had to really face. But then I can see that Sarah also felt guilt because her business wasn't producing as much income even though it took up a lot of time. And she would give herself up in order for me to be able to look after my business. But then at the same time, I would feel like I had to do the same for her because she was doing that for me. But then, I'd get frustrated because I had things to do in my business, and so that was the snowball effect. I kept oscillating between frustration or resentment, around her prioritizing her business and herself. And then the guilt of When she was giving up things that she loved in order for me to look after my business. For me personally, it was my own inner world that was the problem... the way I was perceiving that mine's more important than hers.

And what was your wife's response to all of this? And did she suffer from a lot of the same conditioning... let's say... that that you did? Did she believe that you should on some level be the provider, that you should be the more, your business was more important or any of those things? What did she have to say about it all?

No, because what's so interesting because, and I know I mentioned before, we jumped on how my relationship has been my greatest catalyst for growth. She was disproving every belief or every thought that I had around me having to be a provider. We came up with strategies and we understood underneath it all, that. We're both putting in effort in our Relationship or with our family. We're both putting in effort in our businesses and they are both important to each of us. And then there's also integrity. I was able to share with her where I was at, but she also knew that I would come out on the other side of that, because I'd proven that time and time again through my challenges. She just needed me to be the man in the sense of like still holding my integrity, still holding space for her when she needed, which at that time was pretty challenging, I'll be honest, because of all this stuff that I was going through. And I don't want to pretend I'm perfect, because I'm not even close. So this is something pretty vulnerable that I haven't really shared, but it proves the point that she would go to the lowest of the low with me. And she did because we ended up homeless in 2022.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah. So we've had some big ups and downs. And she's always stood by me. Interestingly enough, we ended up homeless, made my first seven figures in the next six months... no, that's incorrect... did my first six figure weeks within the next six months.

Oh my gosh. Six figure weeks.

Yeah.

Within six months

Yeah. So we went to seven figures.... We hit seven figures in October of that following year.

That's an incredible journey so far, Justin. And I'm so happy we're going to continue the conversation in Part Two of this interview, which is going to be released in a separate episode. That's when we'll get into more detail about how you turned your business around in those six months. And we'll get into some of the broader issues like overcoming stereotypes, societal expectations, the impact of social media, and especially mindset shifts. So for the rest of this episode, let's get you to share some of your best practices for keeping your relationship hot and healthy. So if you were going to give advice to other men who are running businesses and who have a relationship, what would you say is the best piece of advice that you could give them? Your Top Tip?

Oh, that is so hard.

You don't have to stop at one. You can share a few.

Yeah, okay, sure. The number one piece of advice that I would give to men, especially if they're wanting to grow their relationship, but also have a more fulfilling life. #1: It's about your inner world. It's not about necessarily what they're doing or not doing. It's about how you're perceiving what's happening on the outside, and your own responses to that. My perceptions, my decisions, my actions are the only things that I actually have control over. So if I'm trying to change my partner and she doesn't change, all I'm doing is building resentment inside because she's not going to change. Or if she does change, she'll become a shell of a woman because she's, she isn't getting to be herself. She's going to no longer speak her mind. She's no longer gonna speak her heart. She's gonna lose her vibrance. And I know for a fact, as a dude, that's the thing that drew you to her. You don't want an empty shell of a partner. You want her to be vibrant. You wanna be drawn to her. She's also your greatest teacher, which we could probably do a whole podcast on that. So I think that's the number one piece.

That's such a beautiful explanation of why you shouldn't try to change your partner. I really loved that. What's another best practice?

One of the biggest ones that I haven't really spoken about today is #2: That your relationship is separate to your life. And so what does that mean? That the things that you would do in life whether you had a partner or not, are not a contribution to your intimate relationship. So just because you make money, that's a contribution to your life together, but it's not a contribution to your intimate relationship. Just because you go and make All this money doesn't mean that she feels connected to you... because you would go and make money whether you're with her or not. Washing the clothes, and doing the dishes, and doing the shit around the house that maybe you don't want to do, that is a contribution to your life together, not necessarily a contribution to your relationship together. You have to nurture the intimate relationship element of your life. It is separate. So, that realization there was a huge game changer for me. I'd mistaken the two. And I think a lot of us do that When we first meet we're infatuated. We see all the good parts of them, and then we start to run into some of their downsides. But I think that's where love is, it's like loving the parts of them that might piss you off, you still love them though it's like you love those parts...

Yes.

And if you buy into this idea that you should always be close then every time you're not close, you'll have resentment. But then that's also the time when you won't do the things that actually help you to become close.

That's another profound share. I love the way you articulate these ideas. Do you have one more best practice you can share?

Okay, sure. #3: Go and have fun. Fun, people. Fun. Go and do fun shit. Laugh together. You need to laugh together. If you don't laugh together, life gets way too serious. Then your relationship becomes way too serious. And then a lot of the juice and the squeeze in life and your experience is gone.

So, what kind of things do you do?

Like specifically arranging dates for her and I, so taking the lead there, getting the kids managed, she doesn't have to stress. I just say, Hey. We're going out at this time, everything's ordered, you just get yourself ready. And then take her on a date, like I did when we first met.

So what have you done that's been the most fun recently?

So we went and did an escape room recently. That was pretty fun. My wife also loves piano. She plays piano. I booked a room in Melbourne. We went for a candlelight concerts. So I took her to one of them. So it's also looking at the things that she loves and appreciating her for who she is, but also having fun in that. We had a weekend away. And I don't think time's an excuse. So the concert was seven o'clock. We went out for dinner in Melbourne. So two hour drive from here. We had to leave at four o'clock in the morning to come back and run the business. But it's... most people won't do that. But that's half the fun. Three quarters of the fun was the conversation that we had in the car on the way down there. And then getting there, seeing the concert, having dinner. Getting to bed, knowing you had to get up at four o'clock, getting in the car, coming back on the road trip, just the two of you, having fun, listening to music, winding down, reconnecting, doing the things that brings a spark to both of you.

This is very true. I don't want to minimize what you did, but I think this is an important thing to say... you didn't rent a super yacht. You didn't buy her diamond pendant. You didn't have the, the world's greatest chef come make you a private meal. You planned something with that was well within your capability to provide as a normal human being, right? It doesn't have to be one of these super grand gestures all the time. It just has to be a well thought out, planned date where the basics get covered, right? And so that you can go and have a good time.

You're 100 percent on the money because like you think about when you first meet someone and you go on a date and you have fun and you get to know each other and you reconnect. The truth is that you probably changed 100 times... 1, 000 times... since you first started dating. And how often do you date in order to get to know each other again, and to reconnect with each other again, and to have fun with each other again? And you never really just marry the one person or date the one person. You would know this is true, Ellen. Have a think about when you first met met your partner and now who you are today and who they are today versus who they were. And so like you need these things also to reconnect and get to know each other. Like you said, it's not about hiring a super yacht. If you're gonna hire a super yacht that's more about you, to be honest,

it could be. Yeah.

It's like... I wanna hire a super yacht because I think it's cool. But does my wife care that we're on a superyacht? Maybe your wife does. I don't know. She might think it's a cool experience, but could you have more fun somewhere else, maybe? I love the idea that it doesn't have to be grand.

This is very true. I like to wrap up our episodes with three key points you can take away from the discussion. For this one, I'm just going to repeat the three gold bars of advice that Justin just shared: #1: Focus on your inner world, your thoughts, your perceptions, your behaviors, and don't try to change your partner or make them feel like they have to hold back who they are. #2: Nurturing your intimate relationship is separate from life's logistics. The things you do to maintain your life together are different from the things that build intimacy. 3: Make time for fun and laughter together. Enjoy each other and take time to recreate your early dating life. That's the way to build more fulfillment and intimacy. So, if you've loved this conversation with Justin, you won't want to miss Part Two of the interview. That's going to be in an upcoming episode. We'll dig deeper into the business side of Justin's life, and we'll talk about big picture issues that get in the way of men living their best life. We'll tackle some of those hot topics, including overcoming stereotypes and societal expectations, the impact of social media, and especially mindset shifts, which is Justin's expertise. So make sure to tune in for an inspiring and insightful continuation of this conversation with Justin Wiseman. I want to ask you if people have been listening and they've just resonated with you and they want to work with you, tell me what do you offer and how can they reach you? And we'll also make sure that everything gets put in the show notes.

Yeah, sure. So, we've got Maximum Growth. That's our group program, but that's more tailored to more coaches and facilitators, and our core principle is building a business or what we call identity based business, which is based around who you are as an individual... being the center point of how your business grows, but there's a that's all about mindset and leadership. Then with my one to one, it's more tailored coaching. So we like figure out where you're at and where you want to go. And then, we work our way through that. If you wanna find me, the place that I'm most is on Facebook. So it's Justin William Wiseman on Facebook

And like I said, we'll have a link to it in the show notes. So people will be able to find you easily. Justin, thank you so much for spending this time with us. And I'm really excited about everything we've talked about. It was great to have that perspective and all of your unique experience come to the fore like that.

I was just happy to come on and have a conversation. Yeah no, this was fun. I could talk so much about relationship and growth, which is something that I don't often get to share. I think the work that you're doing and helping, business owners,helping with their relationships, I think that's important. So yeah, I'd love to help in this space.

Thank you so much for that. And that is what we do here. We try to help men have the best relationships they can.

Thank you for having me on.

It was a great interview.

Perfect.

Alright. I hope today's episode added value to your life. If you'd like more support, brainstorming or ideas, here's three ways to get that: You can join our private and free Passionate Partners Insider Community on Facebook for exclusive content and resources. Or you can check out our website and social channels to get the scoop on all of our programs, workshops, and coaching. And three, if you'd like to explore your specific situation, book, a free Relationship Reset call with me. Whether it's a minor tune-up or a major overhaul, we'll make a plan to get you back on track. You can head over to relationshipresetcall.com to set that up. The Show Notes lists out everything you need to find me, including all the links to everything I've mentioned and my personal email, I'll be here whenever you're ready. And here are a few things you could do to support the show: If you haven't already please follow and subscribe. That is a win for both of us. Then, if you could leave a review that will help our community grow. And, if you know someone who is struggling in their own relationship, please share the show with them. It could be life-changing for them. Thanks for spreading the word. This is Ellen, and that's what I've got for you today. Until next time remember: What I want most in the world is for you to Make More Love... in Your Life and with Your Wife.