38: The Other Four Horsemen: Hidden Relationship Dynamics That Kill Desire (Avoiding Divorce Series, Part 2 of 4)

Ellen Dorian:
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Hey there. Welcome to Make More Love. This is the show for driven entrepreneurial men who want their life to be about more than just business success. They also want a passionate, aligned, and fun relationship with their spouse that lasts a lifetime. I'm your host Ellen Dorian, and this is your space for straight-up, judgment-free conversations about creating a life where you handle the demands of business, relationships and everything else in a holistic and fulfilling way. We're all about helping you be extraordinary in every way that matters. If you're new to the show, be sure to hit that "Follow" or "Subscribe" button right now so you never miss an episode. If you're serious about transforming your relationship and your life, staying connected here is your first step. And, if you find today's conversation helpful, please share it with a friend who could use some new ideas for their own relationship. Welcome to part two of our series on divorce and how to avoid it. In the US, there are over 700,000 divorces every year involving about 1.4 million people. January is known as the beginning of the divorce season, because divorce attornies see over 10,000 inquiries in the first two weeks of January alone. We are dedicating this month to helping you avoid becoming one of those statistics. Last week, we unpacked the forces that make this time of the year riskier for relationships. If you missed that episode, I encourage you to go back and listen. It's the foundation for everything we're covering this month. And now over the next three episodes, I'm going to help you "bulletproof" your relationship by exploring the three key traits of the strongest partnerships. These traits are: Common purpose. Intentional presence and enduring passion. And we're going to start with passion because let's be honest, many of you wish your sex life was more adventurous, more spontaneous, and of course, more frequent. So that's what we want, why aren't we getting it? You hear a lot about why sex fades in long-term relationships. And while health issues, hormonal changes and the demands of life are absolutely real factors, I think there's another layer that we don't talk about enough. It's about how we're being in our relationships-- our behaviors, the patterns and energy and how those might be creating distance instead of connection. So we're going to explore this question: Could the way you're showing up be affecting the intimacy in your relationship? You might be familiar with Dr. John Gottman's concept of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. These behaviors are red flags for relationship breakdowns and proven predictors of divorce. But through my work, I've observed another set of destructive behaviors that more precisely target intimacy. I'm calling them the Other Four Horsemen. These unconscious habits drain away desire and make it harder for your partner to connect with you emotionally, physically, and sexually. So these Other Four Horsemen are: 1: Neediness --relying solely on external validation and attention. 2: Childlike Behavior--failing to live up to the expectations of an adult partnership. 3: Apathy-- failing to put effort into your relationship. 4: Transactionalism--that's turning your relationship into a series of quid pro quo exchanges. If you recognize these patterns in yourself, this is your chance to reclaim the intimacy in your relationship. Let's unpack each one: what they are, why they're damaging, and how to step out of them. The first horseman is Neediness. This is when you're constantly seeking validation, reassurance, and attention from your partner, like the dog sitting under the dining room table, waiting for scraps to drop. It's annoying and ultimately exhausting for your partner. Here's some examples of how neediness might show up in your relationship. First, you might be constantly seeking reassurance, always asking: "Do you still love me? Are you mad at me," even when there's no real reason to think that something's wrong. It might not feel like a problem to you, but to your partner, it feels like they're stuck in a never ending loop of convincing you that everything's okay. And honestly, That's not sexy. Another way that this might show up in your relationship is Clinginess. Imagine that Your partner's trying to work and you keep interrupting them with random questions or just to check in, or maybe you're following them around the house because you don't want to be alone. You might be thinking that this is being attentive, but to them it can feel smothering. Like they can't even have a minute to themselves to breathe. Another way that neediness shows up is in overreacting to mistakes. Let's say you make a mistake and instead of owning up to it and taking steps to fix it, you go straight to "I'm so worthless. I don't even know why you're with me." And now your partner has to comfort you instead of dealing with the actual issue. This gets old fast. You might think these behaviors show that you're trying to take care of your relationship and be connected to your partner, but your partner could feel like they have to carry your emotional weight. Instead of feeling like equals in the relationship, they're constantly reassuring, comforting you, or trying to escape. And that's going to certainly kill the attraction. So, what can you do about this? Neediness is a habit of looking outside yourself for reassurance. So here's my three-step plan for breaking it. The first thing is noticing when you're doing it, paying attention. When the urge hits, if you recognize any of the examples that I just gave you, then that's a good place to start. And number two is to stop. When you catch yourself seeking reassurance, pause, even in mid-sentence and take a deep breath so you can reset yourself. And step three is to ask yourself, what do I need right now? And how can I get that need met myself? Then focus your attention on meeting that need another way. The second horseman is Childlike Behavior. It's about manipulating your partner into acting as a parent, rather than a lover. And here are a few ways that this can show up. The first one is you leave a mess. Right. You leave your dirty clothes on the floor, dishes in the sink. Little messes everywhere. Leaving it up to your partner to hound you into taking care of it or more often just doing it themselves. Now if your mom or whoever your primary care giver was when you were a child, showed you love by taking care of everything for you, you may now equate being taken care of with being loved and expect your partner to do the same so that they can show that they love you. But I think it becomes pretty obvious pretty quick why that might damage your sexual connection with your partner, right. The second way that childlike behavior can show up in your relationship is you make your partner manage everything. You don't take the initiative on even basic tasks like cooking, paying bills, or organizing your schedule. Or you engage in weaponized, helplessness. That's intentionally doing something badly so that your partner takes it over because it's easier to do it themselves, or because it just keeps the peace. Now if you do this, one reason might be because in your professional life, you're the one in charge carrying all the weight of the responsibility. So when you're not at work, It might feel to you like your partner should have your back and that they can take over and handle things. But the issue here is that, in your work, you choose the role of chief decision-maker. But in your relationship, your spouse signed up to be a partner, not your life manager, and you signed up to be part of a team. And letting the team down isn't very sexy. And the third way childlike behavior comes into relationships is acting immaturely. If you're naturally one of these quick witted, sarcastic people, always playing for laughs, even at the wrong time, that can really eat away at your partner's attraction for you. Imagine your partner's trying to have a serious conversation with you and you crack a joke to lighten the mood as you do. You might think it's just who you are and your partner might see it that way too. They might resign themselves to you being you, but that behavior is not really who you are. It's just a habit, even if neither one of you recognize it as such. Your partner may tolerate you're joking around, but deep down, if they don't believe you will take important things seriously, that will eat away at their attraction for you, creating distance you both feel even if you can't quite put your finger on why. These behaviors create a dynamic where your partner can't rely on you as an equal. Feeling like they have to parent their partner is a sure fire away to lose attraction for them. So if you're prone to this type of behavior, how do you change it? While the steps to change neediness centered on inner reflection, the steps for combating childlike behavior require external awareness. The first step is to learn to read the room. If you engage your eyes and ears, before you open your mouth, you might become aware of what's going on for your partner, how they're feeling and what they need from you. The second step is to take on a few key tasks that make your relationship run smoothly, and make your partner feel like you're fully in the relationship. I recommend that you choose those tasks that are either the most appealing to you or the most unappealing to your partner and take those on. When I was growing up every Saturday, we had to clean house. I always chose cleaning the bathrooms because nobody wanted to clean the bathrooms. So I got extra points for that. Now the third step is for you to choose some adult role models that you admire and observe how they handle situations. Then try to emulate their behavior. Think of it as an apprenticeship or a shadow program. Honestly, this is the way we all learn to react to adult situations. So even if you never got these lessons before, you can learn them now. The third horseman is Apathy. This is about failing to put effort into the relationship, whether that's neglecting to plan date nights or other romantic connection activities. It's like you buy this beautiful house plant and then you never water it. You never feed it. And you never repot it until it shrivels up and turns black. Apathy sends the message that you care more about other things than you do about your partner. So how does this one show up? The major way is not being present. Picture this, you have just gotten home. You're tired and hungry and ready to relax, but your phone buzzes, an email, a text, just one more thing to handle first. Meanwhile, your partner has been waiting to share their day and spend time with you. Your body may be home, but your mind is somewhere else. You might be thinking of it as being a responsible provider, but your partner may experience it as that they are not important. Or, even worse, you don't have your act together enough to make time for them. So later, when you're in the mood to cuddle or play, they're having none of it. the second way that apathy shows up is when you retire the romance. You might think, "Do we really need another dinner out or a movie night? We've been there, we've done that, and that's that stuff's for kids. I married my partner and that should say everything, shouldn't it?" But romance evolves over time. In the early days, it was about pursuit-- a way to win your partner's affection and show that you were invested in them. In a long-term relationship romance becomes more about reaffirmation. It's how you show your partner, that after all this time, you still see them and desire them. When you stop putting the effort in, like skipping date nights and thoughtful gestures, or ignoring birthdays, anniversaries, or other important relationship milestones, you make your partner feel ignored. And, there's a direct correlation between romantic effort and sexual interest. So if you are not getting enough, Maybe it's because you're not putting in enough effort. And finally the fourth horseman is losing empathy. All relationships have problems and some problems are situational. They can be resolved with communication and action. Others are chronic, and call for acceptance and compassion. If the situational problems keep coming up, it's often because the necessary steps haven't been taken to resolve them. And if the chronic issues flare up repeatedly, it might mean we haven't fully accepted our partner's flaws and uniqueness. Ignoring or avoiding your partner's concerns will not make them go away. If you're thinking, "But we've talked about this a million times and I'm just out of ideas ,"that's a sign to bring in a professional, a counselor or a coach who can provide a fresh perspective. At its heart, apathy in a relationship is a failure to show your partner that they matter. Whether that's making time for them, putting an effort, addressing concerns, or showing compassion, these actions communicate value. Without them, your partner's left feeling unimportant, and the connection between you breaks down. So, what can you do about this? Overcoming apathy starts by tapping into the energy you had when you first pursued your partner. Think back, there was a time when you worked hard to win their attention and affection. That energy's still inside you, and reigniting it doesn't have to be this massive undertaking. Just small actions make a big difference. How many times have I said that now? So. Three ways to do this. One is to reconnect with your gratitude. Look for things your partner does that you truly appreciate. And just start making a list. You don't have to share it with your partner if you don't want to, this is just to help you see them more clearly. The next thing is act with more intention. Make it a point to do something for your partner. Send them a text pick up their favorite snack. Plan a simple like coffee date or something, small gestures that just show that you care. And the third way is to shift your perspective. Remember, This person you feel meh about today. It's the same person you once couldn't wait to impress. Reflect on what made you fall in love with them in the first place and seek out those qualities in your day-to-day interactions. Okay. The last horseman we're going to talk about today is Transactionalism. Transactionalism in relationship occurs when interactions between partners are primarily based on exchanges or quid pro quo. Instead of fostering genuine connection, the partners engage in a series of indirect negotiations about how they're going to get their needs met. Here are some examples of how transactionalism shows up in relationships. The first one is Conditional Love. This is a classic. Here are a couple of examples. The husband wants more sex, but his wife is always too tired. She implies that if he helps out more, she might have more energy. So he steps up doing the dishes, the laundry, and handling the kids' lunches, but her interest doesn't change. The suggestion turns their relationship into a transaction, leaving them both frustrated and disconnected. Another example. One partner gains a few pounds and the other suggests, well, if you just lost the weight and got back in shape, I'd be more attracted to you. Instead of inspiring change, the comment crushes that person's confidence and leaves them feeling unattractive and unworthy. And that's definitely going to kill the intimacy between you. Another way that transactionalism comes into play is in keeping score. If one partner tallies every effort they make, like planning date nights or handling chores and expects equal effort in return, that's what I mean by keeping score. Like saying, I planned the last three date nights. So it's your turn now." While it might sound like you just want things to be fair, it can quickly create resentment when the other partner doesn't reciprocate as expected. Instead of fostering connection and care, the relationship turns into a running ledger of who owes who what, leaving both partners feeling like they're not enough. A third way that transactionalism comes into relationships is actually really transparent. And that is using Gifts as Leverage. This is really ugly. I once had a client who told me the only time he and his wife had sex was when he took her on expensive trips or bought her expensive gifts. He joked, "I can't afford a diamond a week just to get laid." What might've started out as love and generosity had turned into a painful dynamic where intimacy was tied to material things. Instead of building connections, the gifts became a transaction and both partners felt the strain. When love and affection are treated as something that can be bought, it strips the relationship of emotional intimacy, and it leaves everyone feeling hollow. I think it's pretty obvious why this is a problem. Transactional thinking is one of the most dangerous and damaging patterns in a relationship. It erodes trust. It reduces intimacy into a series of obligations and leaves both partners feeling used and unvalued. Rooting out transactional thinking takes deliberate effort because historically relationships were built on this dynamic. Men provided financial support and protection, while women contributed homemaking, childbearing and sex. While our values and expectations have evolved, the remnants of this old system still can creep into modern relationships. Recognizing and addressing these patterns is essential to building healthier, more equitable connections. So, what can you do about this? The best first step I can offer you to eliminate transactional thinking is to shift your focus away from what you're getting, and toward what you're giving. Instead of asking, "what's in it for me," ask yourself, "how can I show up for my partner in a way that strengthens our connection?" If you've been stuck in a transactional dynamic, then simply acknowledging that with your partner can create a seismic change, even before you do anything else. Now, transactions by definition involve more than one person. So although I usually emphasize things that you can do without involving your partner, in this case I think the most effective approach is to collaborate on changing the dynamic. Sharing your intentions can help you both stay on the same page and make a real difference. So we're about to wrap up, and I want to ask you a question. Are any of these Other Four Horsemen causing trouble in your relationship? If so just identifying them is the first step to changing them. And by addressing these behaviors, you can build a deeper, more meaningful connection with your partner and lay the foundation for a more satisfying sex life. For more insights and actionable strategies, you can check out a few episodes of Make More Love. There was number 7, which was about mastering date nights. Episode 23 was about steps you can take to reignite your relationship. 24 is a modern heroes guide to making more love. And Episode 25 is about the ways you can make your partner feel more loved and get more love from them in return. And if you'd like to walk through your specific situation, head over to relationshipresetcall.com and set up a time with me. This call is free. It's private, it's quick. And I promise you'll get some ideas you can implement right away to get your relationship moving in the right direction. So I hope this episode has given you something to think about. And this was only part two in the series. Next week We're going to be tackling how to overcome betrayals, large and small. Make sure you don't miss that one. So just to sum up: These Other Four Horsemen that have a direct negative impact on your intimate life are: Neediness Childlike Behavior Apathy and Transactionalism. If you sense any of these things are part of your relationship, you now have a few tools to get you started in getting rid of them. And I hope that that's what you'll do. And I would love to hear your thoughts. So ,please feel free to post in our private and free Facebook group. That's called the Passionate Partners, Insider Community. Or just send me an email at: Ellen@PassionatePartnersProject.com. Alright. I hope today's episode added some real value to your life. If you are ready for more support, ideas, or just someone to brainstorm with here are three ways to get that. One is to join our private and free Passionate Partners, Insider Community on Facebook for exclusive content and resources. Number two is to visit our website and our social channels to learn more about our programs, workshops, and private coaching options. That's passionatepartnersproject.com And number three, if you want to dive into your specific situation, book a free Relationship Reset Call with me. Whether it's a minor tune-up or a major overhaul, we'll make a plan to get you back on track. Just head over to relationshipresetcall.com to set that up. You'll find everything you need, including the links to everything I've mentioned and my personal email right in the show notes. Ellen@passionatepartnersproject.com I'll be here whenever you're ready. And now I've got a request. I could really use your help to get the word out about Make More Love. First, if you haven't already, please hit follow and subscribe on whatever platform you prefer when you do that. It helps more people find the show and it makes sure you don't miss anything. And second, even more important, leaving a review will really help me grow our community so we can reach even more people. And finally, if you know someone who's struggling in their relationship, please share the show with them. A simple share from you could be life-changing for them. So, thank you so much for spreading the word. I believe you had good reasons for choosing the partner you have. My mission is to help you reconnect with those reasons and discover new ways to Make More Love in Your Life and With Your Wife. I'm Ellen Dorian, and that's what I've got for you today.